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Author Topic: Annapolis 44-2  (Read 4482 times)
Adelie
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Ahrrrrrr!!!!

« on: March 25, 2012, 12:22:12 am »

Apparently there was a second version of the Annapolis 44 designed and built for the Naval Academy.

LOA 44 feet
LWL 30 feet
Beam 11 feet
Draft 6 feet
Displacement 22,500 lbs
Sail area 824 sq ft
Designed by Bill Luders
Built by Uniflite
18 boats total built, 12 for academy as Yawls and 6 for Uniflite owners as Cutters.
Construction in fiberglass.
Delieveries from 1963 to at least 1967 (Saw an ad for one listed as 1967).


http://www.cleanwakeproductions.com/boat.php
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sonosail
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« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2012, 11:51:55 am »

Thanks.

I'm wondering if this really correct.
I thought the original wood NA yawls were built and DESIGNED by Luders???
A second batch of FG versions (by Uniflite and definitely designed by Luders) were delivered in the 1960's. (aka Annapolis 44)
The Annapolis 44 was not strictly a cutter but could be rigged as one due to the large foretriangle.
Not many built for individuals as it says in the article.
Another version by McGudry and Rhodes in the mid 1980's. (Morris Yachts.)
But this may have merely been a proposal though I know they built at least 1, because I read somewhere about a sea test.
S&S also submitted a design but it was never built.

The newest version (2000+) by David Pedric. ???????

This, of course, could be all wrong.
Someone must know the real story.

rb

Apparently there was a second version of the Annapolis 44 designed and built for the Naval Academy.

LOA 44 feet
LWL 30 feet
Beam 11 feet
Draft 6 feet
Displacement 22,500 lbs
Sail area 824 sq ft
Designed by Bill Luders
Built by Uniflite
18 boats total built, 12 for academy as Yawls and 6 for Uniflite owners as Cutters.
Construction in fiberglass.
Delieveries from 1963 to at least 1967 (Saw an ad for one listed as 1967).


http://www.cleanwakeproductions.com/boat.php
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Adelie
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Ahrrrrrr!!!!

« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2012, 02:25:22 pm »

Thanks.

I'm wondering if this really correct.
I thought the original wood NA yawls were built and DESIGNED by Luders???
A second batch of FG versions (by Uniflite and definitely designed by Luders) were delivered in the 1960's. (aka Annapolis 44)
The Annapolis 44 was not strictly a cutter but could be rigged as one due to the large foretriangle.
Not many built for individuals as it says in the article.
Another version by McGudry and Rhodes in the mid 1980's. (Morris Yachts.)
But this may have merely been a proposal though I know they built at least 1, because I read somewhere about a sea test.
S&S also submitted a design but it was never built.

The newest version (2000+) by David Pedric. ???????

This, of course, could be all wrong.
Someone must know the real story.

rb


The site I linked to in my previous post indicated that the original A44 was a Rhodes design and indicated early 40's delivery.  Given that AELuders would have been about 30 at this time it seems a stretch that the Navy would trust someone that young with the design.  Other owners I could see, but not the Navy.  Rhodes would have been almost 50 with a string a boats already to his credit.

http://www.navypaxsail.com/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=873452&module_id=69662 :
This site indicates that the design of the A44 was undertaken by Luders Marine Co in 1939 with wood boats delivered in 43.  Rhodes could have done the design and LMC could have built them.  This site also says the replacement boats from 1963 were retreads of the original design in Glass instead of wood with modifications to the interior and 4 additional boats delivered to the Coast Guard Academy.

http://www.usna.edu/sailing/Lectures/navy44/44qualifying.php:
On the other had the Naval Academy site says the first A44's were an AELuders design delivered after WWII and the Fiberglass boats were a retread built by Uniflite 25y after the first set of boats. 

My take is that the sailing division of the Academy may not be terrible interested in complete accuracy of it's own history from 50-70yr ago, certainly they are a bit vague about exact dates.

If I had to guess I would say
A44-1
Designed 1939 by PRhodes
Built 1943 Luder Marine Co
12 yawls

A44-2
Modified design by AELuders
Built beginning 1963
16 yawls (12 USN, 4 USCG) + 6 cutters for Uniflite partners.

I think that LMC doing the original construction and AELuders doing the revised design has led a lot of folks to believe that he did the original design.  I think that the fact that Luders' family business built the original batch and that AEL had established himself as a sailing designer led to the his being selected to modify the original design for glass.

Short of the Navy folks going back thru their old files or somebody involved from the WWII era speaking up I don't see this being resolved definitely.  Given that the Navy is part of the Gov't and files never thrown away the data has to be there, but it may be buried in some offsite archive never to be seen again.

I am sending an email to the USN Lt maintaining that part of their website to see if I can get some info from primary sources or if he knows the source of the info.
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sonosail
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« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2012, 07:18:52 am »

Thanks.

I'm wondering if this really correct.
I thought the original wood NA yawls were built and DESIGNED by Luders???
A second batch of FG versions (by Uniflite and definitely designed by Luders) were delivered in the 1960's. (aka Annapolis 44)
The Annapolis 44 was not strictly a cutter but could be rigged as one due to the large foretriangle.
Not many built for individuals as it says in the article.
Another version by McGudry and Rhodes in the mid 1980's. (Morris Yachts.)
But this may have merely been a proposal though I know they built at least 1, because I read somewhere about a sea test.
S&S also submitted a design but it was never built.

The newest version (2000+) by David Pedric. ???????

This, of course, could be all wrong.
Someone must know the real story.

rb


The site I linked to in my previous post indicated that the original A44 was a Rhodes design and indicated early 40's delivery.  Given that AELuders would have been about 30 at this time it seems a stretch that the Navy would trust someone that young with the design.  Other owners I could see, but not the Navy.  Rhodes would have been almost 50 with a string a boats already to his credit.

http://www.navypaxsail.com/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=873452&module_id=69662 :
This site indicates that the design of the A44 was undertaken by Luders Marine Co in 1939 with wood boats delivered in 43.  Rhodes could have done the design and LMC could have built them.  This site also says the replacement boats from 1963 were retreads of the original design in Glass instead of wood with modifications to the interior and 4 additional boats delivered to the Coast Guard Academy.

http://www.usna.edu/sailing/Lectures/navy44/44qualifying.php:
On the other had the Naval Academy site says the first A44's were an AELuders design delivered after WWII and the Fiberglass boats were a retread built by Uniflite 25y after the first set of boats. 

My take is that the sailing division of the Academy may not be terrible interested in complete accuracy of it's own history from 50-70yr ago, certainly they are a bit vague about exact dates.

If I had to guess I would say
A44-1
Designed 1939 by PRhodes
Built 1943 Luder Marine Co
12 yawls

A44-2
Modified design by AELuders
Built beginning 1963
16 yawls (12 USN, 4 USCG) + 6 cutters for Uniflite partners.

I think that LMC doing the original construction and AELuders doing the revised design has led a lot of folks to believe that he did the original design.  I think that the fact that Luders' family business built the original batch and that AEL had established himself as a sailing designer led to the his being selected to modify the original design for glass.

Short of the Navy folks going back thru their old files or somebody involved from the WWII era speaking up I don't see this being resolved definitely.  Given that the Navy is part of the Gov't and files never thrown away the data has to be there, but it may be buried in some offsite archive never to be seen again.

I am sending an email to the USN Lt maintaining that part of their website to see if I can get some info from primary sources or if he knows the source of the info.

Again, thank you for your contribution to this subject which, to someone like me, is of great interest.
I think you have it right with the possible exception of Philip Rhodes as the original designer.  As you say, it won't be easy to prove, without finding something in a Luders archive. I'm not sure where it would be, but it must be somewhere.
A list of the items in the Rhodes archive IS available on line (Blunt library at Mystic Seaport). I can't say for sure if it's complete and it is not well annotated. But I don't see anything there that would correspond to a design for these boats.
Very interested to see if this guy at the Naval Academy comes up with something.

Regards,
Randy Browning
sailboatdata.com
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sonosail
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« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2012, 07:53:34 am »

Luders 44 (uniflite-fg version)
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« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2012, 09:18:23 pm »

I was a Navy midshipman from 1972-76 and an engineering instructor from 82-84.  I spent many hours/days/weeks on the fiberglass Navy yawls and other boats as well.  As far as I can tell, the history at the following Navy link is correct:

http://www.usna.edu/sailing/Lectures/navy44/44qualifying.php

The yawls were designed by Luders, and the fiberglass yawls were essentially copies of the wooden ones.  They were good boats, but certainly had some limitations when raced against more modern boats.  I have not seen or sailed an Annapolis 44 cutter/sloop, but think the rig should be fine because we rarely used the mizzen going to windward.  On a long enough reaching or running leg, we would use the mizzen and often a mizzen staysail.  I was teaching at the Naval Academy when the McCurdy and Rhodes design was chosen to replace the Luders yawls, but was not involved in the process.

The link below has links to the sail plan, accomodation plans for the Luders yawls and the Naval Academy's Standard Operating Procedures, which might be interesting:

http://www.navypaxsail.com/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=873452&module_id=69662

The McCurdy and Rhodes boats have been replaced by a new David Pedrick design.  The following link to the paper Pedrick and others presented at the Chesapeake Yacht Symposium explains the history of the yawls and M&R boats and fully explains the new design:

www.usna.edu/Users/naome/phmiller/CSYS_NA44-paper.doc

There is no boat that is perfect for everything.  I think the Navy yawls are very good boats for what they were asked to do.  They aren't high tech racers, but are lots of fun and capable in the ocean.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Skipper
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sonosail
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« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2012, 07:38:01 am »

Thanks Skipper.

Just received a book that also seems to imply that NA 44 yawls were originally designed by Luders.

I thought the new Pedrick 44 (Leadership 44) was primarily for the Coast Guard Acad.  I'll have to change that.

rb


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Adelie
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Ahrrrrrr!!!!

« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2014, 08:22:20 am »

Just came across a book called 'Sailing at the USN Academy' by Rbt McNitt.

The book indicates the 1960s glass boats were adaptations of the 1930s wood boats, and the adaptation was done by a naval architect named Robert Henry.  Glass boats were delivered 1963-68 and were built by United Boat Builders Inc., aka Unitflite.

I do not recall the book indicating the NA for the original woodies, only that they were built by Luders Marine Construction.
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sonosail
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« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2014, 08:47:17 am »

Just came across a book called 'Sailing at the USN Academy' by Rbt McNitt.

The book indicates the 1960s glass boats were adaptations of the 1930s wood boats, and the adaptation was done by a naval architect named Robert Henry.  Glass boats were delivered 1963-68 and were built by United Boat Builders Inc., aka Unitflite.

I do not recall the book indicating the NA for the original woodies, only that they were built by Luders Marine Construction.
that does fit.

Robert Henry Jr. worked at S&S for a number of years and later worked for the Naval Academy.  His best known design, (or known to me), is the INTERNATIONAL 500.  The ones that were imported to the US  seem to all have had varnished topsides.  I wonder if any are left today.

The book I have, (written before WWII, is sort of a critique of what was then, modern day Naval Architecture.  It uses/refers to the original wood  NA 44  to illustrate some of his points.  good and bad trends, etc.  He clearly identifies the designer as A.E. Luders.   
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 08:56:12 am by sonosail » Logged
Adelie
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Ahrrrrrr!!!!

« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2014, 08:57:32 am »

Sounds like Robert Henry should get some credit for designing the glass versions.
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A house is but a boat so poorly built and so firmly run aground that no one would think to try and refloat it.
sonosail
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« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2014, 09:52:14 am »

A great idea, which occurred to me also and it has already been done.

rb
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