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Author Topic: need some help to ID this dinghy  (Read 8851 times)
Sim1964
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« on: February 07, 2011, 12:44:41 pm »

hi ,
you guys were recommended to me by the cruisers & sailing forum
as you are the people to ask about this dinghy that i've seen but can't ID
it's about 16 to 18 ft long
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Sim1964
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« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2011, 12:46:37 pm »

good luck and thanks
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*AJ*
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« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2011, 09:28:59 am »

Hello Sim1964 ~

I have not had a chance to go through all my info to search your boat in question, however, I have had luck (when searching a wooden racing dinghy I own) over on the Classic & Vintage Racing Dinghy site;

http://www.cvrda.org/wp-cvrda/

They have a good forum and I was directed to many contacts through them.

They might be another avenue to use in your search for information on your boat.

*AJ*
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sonosail
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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2011, 08:13:54 am »

Right. that site is great.
For some reason, this looks French to me. If it weren't for the daggerboard, I'd say it was a Zef.  The boat in the picture also looks a little too big. Hopefully Comorant (our 'In residence expert on French sailboats Emeritus') might stop buy and have a look.

Randy Browning
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Cormorant
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« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2011, 03:21:31 pm »

Quote
For some reason, this looks French to me. If it weren't for the daggerboard, I'd say it was a Zef.  The boat in the picture also looks a little too big. Hopefully Comorant (our 'In residence expert on French sailboats Emeritus') might stop buy and have a look.

You know, that is precisely what I was thinking ever since I saw it. I see all the common local forms...like a hybrid..
(except for the angle of the hull at the very tip, as it sweeps back more than usual).

My gut reaction was to check out Lanaverre, cause the hull is screaming that...but what's up with that monster of a daggerboard?
If it's not French, it's definitely inspired from the schools around here. I'll have a deeper look...




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Sim1964
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« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2011, 02:02:06 am »

I've been back and had another look at the boat
and found a plate on the transom that said it was
Built by J L gmach &co Ltd 
Fordingbridge hants
I hope this helps and thanks to you all for your time
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sonosail
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« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2011, 06:04:49 am »

So much for that theory.  Though I still feel I was in smart company, in that Comorant was thinking the same thing.

I've heard of this company. A builder of a lot of the early Albacores. (among other boats and non-marine related stuff.)
The English Dinghy site that AJ suggested is really the place to find the answer.
If you haven't had a chance to post the pics over there, I may do it myself if you don't mind.

Randy Browning   
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sonosail
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« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2011, 06:09:28 am »

Quote
For some reason, this looks French to me. If it weren't for the daggerboard, I'd say it was a Zef.  The boat in the picture also looks a little too big. Hopefully Comorant (our 'In residence expert on French sailboats Emeritus') might stop buy and have a look.

You know, that is precisely what I was thinking ever since I saw it. I see all the common local forms...like a hybrid..
(except for the angle of the hull at the very tip, as it sweeps back more than usual).

My gut reaction was to check out Lanaverre, cause the hull is screaming that...but what's up with that monster of a daggerboard?
If it's not French, it's definitely inspired from the schools around here. I'll have a deeper look...
Somewhat interesting aside, (to some people maybe); Though I've never actually SEEN a Zef, other than in pictures, it appears that some were actually imported to the US.   Happened to stumble on to this advert from 1971.
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Cormorant
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« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2011, 08:06:16 am »

Interesting, though I still say I see French inspiration ...

First of all, "Built by J L gmach &co Ltd" only meand that are the builders (you can have different builders that purchase or rent the mould of a boat design), but that the boat itself is the design of a different company (likely). French GRP boats were made by many many different builders over time.

J L gmach &co Ltd is a company over there in the UK, so close to France too. I'm going to take this extra info and run with it.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2011, 12:09:20 pm by Cormorant » Logged

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Cormorant
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« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2011, 08:46:25 am »

Sorry, let me explain what I'm thinking.

You see, the hull and deck remind me of the Lanaverre 470/420:



But this is not possible, given the angle of the nose, which is steeper in Mystery Boat, and you give a longer dimension.

It also harkens the Zef true true, with the moulded seat area and the centerboard seat bit, but zefs are more rounded and chubby.

And yet the front bulkhead is a spitting image of one you might see on a 505, as well as the size and placement of the mast (sorry, I could not find a photo to show this). The 505 also has a place behind where the daggerboard goes that could easily be converted into a cabinet/seat to sit on like in the mystery boat's photo.

But the placement of the shrouds, and how they go through the deck. Sorry, but wtf?

The really weird bit though is the inside, I have never seen that moulded seat thing in a lanaverre. Vauriens ans Zefs , yes but???

So you see, I see these flashes of the designs, but it's killing me...

Maybe it's a really pimped-out old 505? A UK company that borrowed from Lanaverre GRP designs (very very popular over here)? I fear we may never know... Have any more photos, exact measurements? Maybe I'll post a photo in the clubhouse and ask "Anyone seen me?"

Found this neat article : http://bearfacemedia.co.uk/European_Dinghies.aspx
« Last Edit: February 13, 2011, 11:12:57 am by Cormorant » Logged

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Cormorant
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« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2011, 09:32:57 am »

Ok so, I'm going with the idea of UK, and I ran accross a new contender: Perhaps an early Kestrel : http://www.kestrel.org.uk/ ?

And: http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=5421  ;)

To be noted that at one point they were in fact built by John Gmach's company in Fordingbridge (according to the association's website):

Has the right hull shape and interior area by the mast and daggerboard, which nonetheless resemble a 505.

EDIT: It appears that John Gmach's firm also produced some 505s in the 70's, and that some made it to the US. For what it's worth.


« Last Edit: February 13, 2011, 11:12:09 am by Cormorant » Logged

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sonosail
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« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2011, 09:27:56 pm »

Ok so, I'm going with the idea of UK, and I ran accross a new contender: Perhaps an early Kestrel : http://www.kestrel.org.uk/ ?

And: http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=5421  ;)

To be noted that at one point they were in fact built by John Gmach's company in Fordingbridge (according to the association's website):

Has the right hull shape and interior area by the mast and daggerboard, which nonetheless resemble a 505.

EDIT: It appears that John Gmach's firm also produced some 505s in the 70's, and that some made it to the US. For what it's worth.

Thanks so much Cormerant.
I know this guy built a lot of the early Kestrels. You COULD be right. But look at that bow....Just doesn't seem to be the same boat. I'd like to hear what the people at the cvrda.org say.

I'll let you know how I make out.

rb
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sonosail
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« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2011, 12:50:52 pm »

We have the answer! (thanks to the English Classic Dinghy site:  www.cvrda.org - these guys know everything)
It's a Wildfire, and Ian Proctor design.
"It was Ian Proctors second shot at a hybrid dinghy - a normal dinghy hull shape but with a keel. Peter Milne also had the same idea with a boat called the Vulcan (beam me up Scotty)..... the idea being that you had a hollow dagger board that you weighted one afloat with bags of lead shot on long ties (hence the two bins that you can see in the picture." I knew about the Vulcan and it's hollow dagger/drop keel.

I have yet to find a picture of either the Wildire or the Vulcan. Don't believe there are to many of either one of these still around.

Randy Browning
sailboatdata.com
 
« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 01:33:01 pm by sonosail » Logged
Sim1964
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« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2011, 01:57:31 am »

thanks very much , i never thought i would get an answer but you guys are amazing
many thanks again  :) :) :) :) :) ;)
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sonosail
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« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2011, 01:12:48 pm »

thanks very much , i never thought i would get an answer but you guys are amazing
many thanks again  :) :) :) :) :) ;)

Your most welcome. I'm hoping you won't mind getting in touch with that guy at the classic dinghy site, also in the UK, who owns a Wildfire.  He had some questions about the one in your photos. I assume you read my PM.

rb

rb
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